Tayside Branch
Secretary: Andrew McKay
News
Obituaries Click Here
Updated 2nd July, 2008
ILLNESS OF DETECTIVE SUPERINTENDENT JIM CAMERON
Detective Superintendent Jim Cameron, Tayside Police took ill at work on July 1st and is presently in the Intensive care unit, Ninewells Hospital where his condition is described as critical but stable. His condition will continue to be monitored and assessed.
Superintendent Cameron's illness was reported in the media and Tayside Police have received numerous requests for information and messages of support from colleagues around the 8 forces. ACC Clive Murray is acting, for now, as the single point of contact until Jims condition is better known.
Mrs Susan Cameron has been heartened by messages of support however does wish some privacy for the near future until there is greater certainty around Jims condition.
Any messages for Jim and family can be forwarded to ACC Murray e-mail clive.murray@tayside.pnn.police.uk
Tayside Branch will update this item as appropriate.
Minutes of the Annual General Meeting of the
Retired Police Officers’ Association (Scotland) Tayside Branch
held at 7.30 p.m. on Thursday, 25th October, 2007 at Police H.Q., Dundee.
OPENING OF MEETING
The President, Alastair Drummond, opened the meeting and welcomed the members present. He went on to explain that it had originally been planned that the Chief Constable, Mr Vine, would open and address the meeting but unfortunately an unavoidable duty commitment resulted in this being cancelled. It had then been arranged that either the A.C.C. Mr MacLeod or the D.C.C. Mr Mathieson would substitute. Regrettably, a similar unavoidable situation had arisen involving both and, whilst expressing disappointment, the President made reference to the responsibilities which accompany such offices.
The President then went on to, on behalf of the assembled gathering, express his thanks for the beautiful finger buffet which had been provided by the Chief Constable for those attending the meeting, to which there was unanimous nodding agreement by all present. The President also complimented the staff involved in its presentation.
The President then made reference to the difficulties created by the recent postal strike which had resulted in only the first 200 Agendas being delivered in good time. The second posting of 280 plus envelopes, despite leaving the Secretary on 5th October, were not delivered until a few days before the meeting. While this was regrettable it was outwith our control and the obvious decision was to go ahead with the meeting recognising that it may have affected attendance.
The President concluded his address by inviting those present to be upstanding and join him in a few moments silent reflection in memory of those colleagues who had passed on since the last A.G.M., following which he returned to the Agenda.
GORDON BARRIE NICOL BATHIE Wm BOYLE
DAVID BYARS WILLIAM CLARK GORDON DICKSON
CHARLES DONALDSON ALASTAIR DRUMMOND CHARLES FOOTE
DAVID GIBSON THOMAS GORRIE PETER GRIGGS
KINNEAR HIRST FRED MARSHALL GEORGE MILLAR
DAVID MACDOUGALL ALEX MACKENZIE Wm MACFARLANE
RON McBEAN DAVID McGIBBON TOM McGOULDRICK
ANDREW McKAY Wm McLUCKIE ROBERT McTAVISH
Wm NICOLL ROBERT PALMER (Callandar) JACK RAMSAY
ALEX RITCHIE ROBERT STORRIER GEORGE TODD
JOHN WALKER IAN WHITTON
APOLOGIES FOR ABSENCE
JAMES ADAMSON JOHN ALEXANDER RON ARTHUR
ADAM BERWICK DAVID BINNIE ROD BOWMAN
ANN CHANDLER JAMES COBBAN ALEX DENNY
IAN FORBES ALF HARDING ALLAN HUGHES
DAVID HOCKING ALISTAIR JOSS BRUCE MAIR
BRYAN MALCOLM HELEN MANINI JAMES MELVILLE
DAVID MILL DONALD MILNE RICK McCORQUODALE
ROBERT PALMER (Dunning) ALEX PETRIE Wm PRINGLE
KENNETH ROBERTSON DAVID ROSS DONALD SAUNDERS
COLIN SCOTT Wm SHEPHERD Wm SMITH
JAMES STEWART JAMES STRACHAN JOHN THORNTON
MARK WATSON
APPROVAL OF PREVIOUS MINUTES
The Minutes of the A.G.M. held on 26th October 2006, which had been circulated, were approved as printed.
MATTERS ARISING FROM PREVIOUS MINUTES
(a) Annual Council Meeting
The Chairman invited the Secretary to give a resumé of the A.C.M., the proceedings of which are referred to at some length in the Annual Report which had been circulated along with the agenda. The Secretary invited questions based on that already circulated and none were forthcoming. For the benefit of some of the older Federation members present Willie Nicoll (who had attended the A.C.M.) made reference to the fact that two of the invited guests had been Jimmy Duncan, ex office manager and “pensions expert” for the S.P.F. and ex General Secretary, Joe Black, both of whom were looking well and in good spirits.
The only other relevant factor related to the Chairman extending congratulations to the Secretary on his appointment as vice President of the national association.
(b) Tayside Police Club
The Chairman invited George Todd and Ian Whitton to report on the Club Dinners held in Perth in April and Dundee on 18th October 2007. Both reported in glowing terms on the meals and hospitality enjoyed and also the entertainment provided by the two guest speakers involved.
In concluding the item the Chairman reiterated his thanks to the Club and referred to a congenial meeting at the Dundee function with D.C.C. Mr Mathieson. He also made reference to the subsidy provided by the Club in respect of Club members who participated in the Branch activities which was particularly welcome in respect of the well attended golf outings.
(c) Northern Police Convalescent and Treatment Centre
At the invitation of the Chairman the Secretary provided a breakdown of numbers attending Castlebrae and Harrogate from Tayside in the course of the last year. Four members had attended Harrogate and 35 at Castlebrae. Within the records kept there is no breakdown given of numbers of retired/serving members but it is known that several retired members had received treatment. Members present were reminded that officers who had contributed during their service were entitled to free treatment with the proviso that priority had to be given to the needs of serving members.
Bob Palmer reported having recently, and by chance, met the ex Superintendent of Castlebrae, George Murray, who was during his stay at Castlebrae a member of this Branch and he sent his regards for the meeting.
(d) Tayside Police Museum
The Chairman invited museum curator Willie MacFarlane who was attending as a member to provide the meeting with an update and outline of the current position regarding his involvement.
In addressing the meeting Willie firstly paid tribute to the tremendous amount of and the precise accuracy of all that he inherited in the museum which had been put in place by the late curator Stewart Harris. Willie acknowledged in particular the cataloguing (in longhand) of records and artefacts relating to Dundee City Police and Perth and Kinross Constabulary which were particularly extensive and of great interest. There was much less gathered in relation to Angus Constabulary and Willie asked members from that area to keep the museum in mind and that he would be glad to hear from them about anything which might be of interest.
Willie also emphasised that the existence of the museum website was resulting in many more enquiries literally from around the globe. In the recent past on checking his records he found that he was, or had been, actively engaged researching 49 separate enquiries. In addition to these he had in the pipeline talks arranged to 5 or 6 different groups/organisations including one at Bridge of Gaur.
Willie concluded his submission by stating that he was pleased to have made contact with the new Force Archivist Claire Sturrock and that their respective functions and ideas appeared to merge well and bode well for the future.
Willie answered several queries from the floor before the Chairman thanked him for his input and Willie left the meeting to attend to a previously arranged commitment in the museum.
(The website can be accessed on www.taysidepolice.police.uk)
(e) Affiliate Membership of Narpo
The Chairman indicated that the main debate on NARPO would take place when the motion on the subject was dealt with later in the agenda. He did, however, invite the Secretary to speak on the matter in general terms at which point the Secretary informed the meeting that while the volume of correspondence was quite high and required regular attention the administration ran smoothly.
(f) Branch Activities
Jack Ramsay who has organised the programme for several years spoke of his pleasure at the success of some of the outings, particularly the golf, where both the outings were very well attended with 21 attending at Rosemount and 24 at Downfield. There had, however, only been one member responding for the Driving School. For reasons concerned with bookings Jack had been unable to secure tickets for the Edinburgh Tattoo or Guys and Dolls. It was, however, his intention to "get in early" next year for these venues when he hoped he would be more successful.
In connection with advance bookings Jack informed the meeting he would require "up front" deposits and that he was merely drawing members' attention to this fact.
In closing his submission Jack again reiterated his thanks to the Police Sports Club for their subsidy in connection with the sporting events.
The Chairman on behalf of the members, extended his thanks to Jack for the work he undertook in this matter and all present accorded Jack a warm vote of thanks expressed in the usual fashion.
(g) R.P.O.A.(S) Website
The Chairman invited Willie McLuckie, whose brother Davy of the Lothian & Borders Branch is the national webmaster, to address the meeting.
Willie indicated that the newly established national database gave a much needed handle on the wider national membership which hitherto had only existed within the records held by Branches.
In relation to local matters Willie informed the meeting that he currently undertook the responsibility of passing on information for inclusion on the national site and indicated that he would be happy to post information on such matters as retirement functions on the site where they might be seen by ex colleagues who may have for example left the area. Matters such as this and the advertising of jobs suitable for retired members would be welcomed on the site. Although there is in place an agreement by the Chief Constable to notify us of any such jobs nothing has yet been forthcoming.
The Chairman thanked Willie for his address.
(h) Tayside Police Pipe Band
This matter remained on the agenda from last year when it had been resolved to make some enquiry as to why the centenary of the Band had not been suitably marked in 2005.
Both Jack Ramsay and Alex MacKenzie had made enquiries when it was revealed there had been a 15 month or thereby period during the 100 years when the Band had been in abeyance. The outcome was that nothing had taken place.
A member from the floor referred to a council reception for the Band which had taken place in November 2006 during which he reported that some “scant reference” had been made to the centenary. Following a discussion which indicated some continuing dissatisfaction it was agreed that nothing further could be achieved and it was agreed to delete from the agenda.
(i) Police Portal Messaging System
The Secretary reported that he had obtained nearly all of the details required (5 exceptions despite stamped addressed envelopes being included for replies) for fulfilling the requirements for inclusion. The matter was, however, still being worked on in Force and had been for some time. The response from the meeting was unanimously positive in that our inclusion in the system would be of great advantage.
(j) Tayside Police Benevolent Fund
The Chairman outlined the current position to the meeting including the fact that the Branch, since the last A.G.M., had sought to have 2 “as of right” places on the Benevolent Fund Committee. The Secretary had presented a motion to that effect to the A.G.M. when it was unanimously agreed. The Branch are now represented on the Committee by the Secretary and Alex MacKenzie.
Since the last A.G.M. the Branch had been represented at all meetings. The Branch Committee are pleased to acknowledge that with the Chief Constable’s approval all widows continue to be visited twice yearly by an officer in uniform. This tangible aspect of caring by the Force is much appreciated in such an important and extensive area of involvement. There are currently 210 police widows of whom only 24 reside outwith Tayside. From these visits to widows, financial grants are made to 10 who are in conditions of need. Various one-off grants have been made to several in respect of particular situations which have arisen.
The Committee are confident that it is demonstrated by experience that Tayside Police Benevolent Fund does not have an equal anywhere in the country and it is the declared intention to ensure that this remains the case.
(k) Concessionary Parking at Airports
This matter was carried over from the last A.G.M. prior to which a previous concessionary agreement through the Federation Office had been withdrawn by Flying Scot Airport Parking in respect of retired members. Since then the position had not changed and no new agreement had been possible. It was agreed to delete from the agenda.
MOTION
Prior to the motion detailed below being formally moved the Chairman invited the Secretary to address the meeting on a financial aspect concerning NARPO contributions which had been passed as a motion at their annual conference recently. The meeting had passed a motion to increase NARPO Branches contributions by over £4.00 to £19.80, this sum to be used for “Branch member benefits”. The Secretary had taken the matter up with NARPO Chief Executive Mike Thornton who stated that his view was that affiliate members could not benefit as Branch members as they weren’t members of one of their Branches. However, on the basis that if the worst came to pass and the full 40% of the increase was to be passed on to affiliates the total increase would amount to £1.67p. Mike Thornton stated it was his intention to raise the matter at his Executive to clarify this position but it was his view that this increase should not be applied to affiliates.
While the questions remain formally unconcluded the only other relevant pointer was the fact that the NARPO request for the 2nd half year subscriptions had come in last week which stated that next year’s increase was 24 pence which figure relates only to the proportionate inflation percentage increase on our current subscription of £6.00 per member.
At the invitation of the Chairman Bob McTavish moved the following motion which was properly seconded from the floor.
“That the Retired Police Officers’ Association (Scotland) Tayside Branch
cease affiliation to the National Association of Retired Police Officers.”
Bob spoke on his motion for approximately 15 minutes during which time he expressed dissatisfaction with the fact that the Branch contributed so much of its income to NARPO for what he described as a very poor return. In preparing his motion he described, at length, the fact that he had written to the President of NARPO asking answers to a list of questions which he related to the meeting (along with NARPO’s answers) and asking that his letter and NARPO’s response thereto be published in the NARPO magazine. He also implied criticism of the fact that his letter had been answered by the Chief Executive of NARPO instead of the President and he complained that his request for the correspondence to be published in the magazine had been ignored.
In concluding his address Bob strongly opposed the fact that NARPO’s assets were being boosted by this Branch’s contributions for what he considered to be a very poor return as there was very little ever relating to Scotland referred to in the magazine and asking those present to support the motion.
Several members present spoke in favour of the motion whilst several also spoke against it. By way of fairness, it has to be said that the opposing views were expressed with conviction but in a spirit of reasonableness and fairness.
On being invited by the Chairman to sum up, Bob reiterated the fact that NARPO’s assets were being boosted by this Branch’s contributions for what he considered to be a very poor return.
The Chairman stated that the matter had had a good airing, and he then moved to the vote. On being voted on, the motion was defeated by 18 votes to 11.
At this juncture, Bob requested that the Chairman allow 29 proxy votes which he had canvassed to count in favour of the motion. The Chairman ruled these inadmissible in terms of the Rules, declared the motion defeated and moved to next business.
ANNUAL REPORT
The Annual Report had been circulated along with the meeting agenda. The Chairman indicated that the Secretary would answer any questions regarding the report. No questions were forthcoming from the floor and at the Chairman’s request the report was formally moved, seconded and thereby approved.
WELFARE
The Chairman outlined the general procedures which the Committee undertook including the fact that this is a standing agenda item at Committee meetings. By this means it was possible to widen the awareness of any welfare matters coming to the notice of Committee members and have them dealt with appropriately. The Chairman emphasised with the members present that the Committee will be glad to be told of any situations they may become aware of in this regard.
TREASURER’S REPORT
The Treasurer, Ron McBean, took the meeting through his audited Annual Balance Sheet. He informed the meeting that presently approximately 13% of membership was in the “over 80s” category where subscriptions were waived and all outgoings paid by the Branch. At the last count there were 61 members of 80 plus years.
On completing his very full explanations of income and expenditure Ron reminded the meeting that the Branch were due to host the Annual Council Meeting in April 2009 which fact had financial implications. (In rotation this happens only once every 12 years.) He also said that this fact aside the Branch could survive on an even keel with the present £10 annual subscription but added that he would have to suggest under agenda heading “Annual Subscription Rate” an increase in subscriptions.
In concluding his address Ron thanked the auditors, Tom McGouldrick and Nicol Bathie, for their time and effort in the preparation of the accounts.
The Chairman then invited queries/comments from the floor. Ron answered several points raised by members after which the Chairman invited the auditors to comment.
On behalf of himself and Tom McGouldrick, Nick Bathie warmly thanked Ron for his extremely clear and concise presentation which had made their task quite simple and a pleasure to undertake.
The Chairman, on behalf of the wider membership, reiterated Ron’s thanks to Tom and Nick and the meeting then endorsed the Chairman’s remarks with their own vote of thanks expressed in the usual fashion. (Copy of Balance Sheet attached)
MEMBERSHIP
The Treasurer indicated that current membership stood at about 482 and was rising slowly and steadily. Other relevant factors are covered under “Treasurer’s Report”.
ANNUAL SUBSCRIPTION RATE
The Treasurer referred to his earlier comment on this matter and indicated that all things considered it was his recommendation that the annual subscription rate be raised to £12.00. He justified his position by again referring to the figures he produced earlier and reiterated the requirements of the Branch in relation to the A.C.M. in 2009.
From the floor both Alex MacKenzie and Bob McTavish asked questions relating to Narpo as follows.
(a) Can an existing member “opt out of Narpo” and remain a Branch member by
continuing to pay the full Branch fee?
(b) Will it help Branch funds if the answer to (a) above is “Yes”?
Ron answered both points in the affirmative saying that if anyone wished to be removed from the Narpo lists they should contact the Secretary who would inform Narpo accordingly. He did, however, reiterate that as standard Branch membership included the Narpo payment that the Branch subscription would not be lower for the individual. He continued that any such money not forwarded to Narpo would obviously help local funds.
Ron answered several other related questions put to him by members after which the Chairman put Ron’s recommendation to the meeting when it was passed without dissent.
SECRETARY AND TREASURER’S EXPENSES
The Chairman reminded the meeting that this item also dealt with the honoraria relating to the civilian assistance provided to the Branch by Mrs Sheena Joss.
On the question being put by the Chairman, both the Secretary and Treasurer intimated that they were happy with things as they were. This recognised the fact that both sums had been increased last year to £125.00 and £85.00 respectively. The meeting then formally approved these sums.
The Chairman sought information from the Secretary regarding the workload undertaken by Mrs Joss which he, the Secretary, considered had not changed since last year. The meeting then approved the continued payment of £200 to Mrs Joss.
APPOINTMENT OF AUDITORS
The Chairman again thanked the present auditors, Tom McGouldrick and Nick Bathie, for their valued assistance in the past. He asked if both would be willing to continue in the posts, to which they both agreed. The Chairman, on behalf of the wider membership, repeated his thanks to Tom and Nick for their continued assistance and support.
The Chairman introduced this subject at which time the meeting unanimously agreed that invitations be extended to Chief Constable John Vine CBE, QPM, BA, MCIPD and ex Chief Constables Jack W. Bowman CBE, QPM and William A Spence QPM, BA, LLB to accept positions as Honorary Vice Presidents of the Branch.
(Signed) ALASTAIR DRUMMOND (Signed) ANDREW McKAY
President Secretary
Assistance Required
My Name is Claire Sturrock and I'm the Records Manager for Tayside Police.
I've had a call from a member of the public researching a book who is looking for details of a robbery that occurred at Broughty Ferry Castle in the late 70's or early 80's - he believes some antique pistols may have been stolen.
I've spoken to Willie McFarlane, Museum Curator, but we're struggling to find any record of it here and wonder if any member of the Retired Police Officers Association can help out.
Any information would be useful, particularly dates - even narrowing the time line down to a few years.
Thank you,
Claire Sturrock
Records Manager and Archivist
Professional Standards
Tayside Police
Tel: 01382 596657
Fax: 01382 596048
email: claire.sturrock@tayside.pnn.police.uk
Branch Members at The ACM in Peebles
Programme of Events, 2007
The following programme is being proposed for members of the Branch for 2007. Your comments, suggestions, thoughts, contributions, welcome.
Anyone interested on going on the trips or golf matches should contact Jack Ramsay on 01382 533102
(4) Visit to Police College and Driving School. An application to visit the Scottish Police College and Driver Training Division has been made. A few places only and will be allocated on a 1st come 1st served basis. At the same time a visit to the Castle and College training facilities will be available for those others interested in visiting this facility.